Discussion:
Deadwood is a horrible show
(too old to reply)
jombithedjinn
2006-05-24 20:05:07 UTC
Permalink
That's right, I said it. It's a horrible show. It's like the creators
said "hmm, how could we figure a way to take convoluted, flowery,
tonguetwisting, two-bit Shakespearre-wannabe dialogue that's completely
unrealistic and that doesn't reflect the way anyone ever talked in real
life, and cram as much into an hour as possible? Oh, and we'll throw in
the word "fuck" alot because we want to be edgy."
Harkness
2006-05-24 20:09:20 UTC
Permalink
actually, they hardly use the word "fuck" at all.

John Harkness
Sparky Spartacus
2006-05-25 14:21:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harkness
actually, they hardly use the word "fuck" at all.
You forgot "you dumb cocksucker!" John. ;)
Fragile Warrior
2006-05-28 19:39:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harkness
actually, they hardly use the word "fuck" at all.
And it's usually in context when they do.
unknown
2006-05-28 23:13:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fragile Warrior
Post by Harkness
actually, they hardly use the word "fuck" at all.
And it's usually in context when they do.
Yeah, like my all time favorite, Swearengen after things had been stressing
him out all day: "I need to fuck something."
Moonshine
2006-07-16 04:53:56 UTC
Permalink
interesting site below.... the number if time the word fuck has gone up each
season.....

http://www.thewvsr.com/deadwood.htm
Post by Harkness
actually, they hardly use the word "fuck" at all.
John Harkness
Dave Head
2006-07-16 10:46:35 UTC
Permalink
People actually watch this stuff?

Its like the 3D moviemakers... just because they _can_ do wierd things with
some kind of pole sticking out into the audience doesn't mean they should...

Dave Head
Post by Moonshine
interesting site below.... the number if time the word fuck has gone up each
season.....
http://www.thewvsr.com/deadwood.htm
Post by Harkness
actually, they hardly use the word "fuck" at all.
John Harkness
p***@wintertime.com
2006-07-17 06:02:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Head
People actually watch this stuff?
Yes. Quite a few people, in fact.
Post by Dave Head
Its like the 3D moviemakers... just because they _can_ do wierd things with
some kind of pole sticking out into the audience doesn't mean they should...
I agree, which is why I couldn't stand the show the first couple of
times I tried to watch it. I am still convinced that the people
responsible for the show have an attitude of, "Hey, look, we're
on HBO!", but I have also come to appreciate the overall use of
language on the show. The vocabulary (aside from the over-reliance
on obscenities) and rhythms are wonderful.


Patty

Mr. Wu
2006-07-16 12:23:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moonshine
interesting site below.... the number if time the word fuck has gone up each
season.....
http://www.thewvsr.com/deadwood.htm
Who has the time to sit around and count shit like that?
Anim8rFSK
2006-07-16 12:32:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mr. Wu
Post by Moonshine
interesting site below.... the number if time the word fuck has gone up each
season.....
http://www.thewvsr.com/deadwood.htm
Who has the time to sit around and count shit like that?
No, no, no. They aren't counting shit. They're counting fuck.
Dano
2006-07-16 12:54:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anim8rFSK
Post by Mr. Wu
Post by Moonshine
interesting site below.... the number if time the word fuck has gone up each
season.....
http://www.thewvsr.com/deadwood.htm
Who has the time to sit around and count shit like that?
No, no, no. They aren't counting shit. They're counting fuck.
So they're fucking counting? Who gives a fuck?
Tom Zielinski
2006-07-16 15:03:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dano
Post by Anim8rFSK
Post by Mr. Wu
Post by Moonshine
interesting site below.... the number if time the word fuck has gone up each
season.....
http://www.thewvsr.com/deadwood.htm
Who has the time to sit around and count shit like that?
No, no, no. They aren't counting shit. They're counting fuck.
So they're fucking counting? Who gives a fuck?
That's two for Dano, one each for Mr. Wu and Anim8rfsk.
jayembee
2006-07-16 15:25:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dano
Post by Anim8rFSK
Post by Mr. Wu
Who has the time to sit around and count shit like that?
No, no, no. They aren't counting shit. They're counting fuck.
So they're fucking counting? Who gives a fuck?
Fucking counting cocksuckers.

-- jayembee
William Wright
2006-07-16 16:20:34 UTC
Permalink
I remember one episode in season one, I asked my wife, how long before
Swearengen says "cocksucker". When the show started, the first word
actually spoken was by Swearengen, and don't you know, he began with
"Cocksuckers.....". I never laughed so hard in my life.
--
***@verizon.net
"In the startled ear of night
How they scream out their affright!
Too much horrified to speak,
They can only shriek, shriek, "
Post by jayembee
Post by Dano
Post by Anim8rFSK
Post by Mr. Wu
Who has the time to sit around and count shit like that?
No, no, no. They aren't counting shit. They're counting fuck.
So they're fucking counting? Who gives a fuck?
Fucking counting cocksuckers.
-- jayembee
EGK
2006-07-16 16:32:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Wright
I remember one episode in season one, I asked my wife, how long before
Swearengen says "cocksucker". When the show started, the first word
actually spoken was by Swearengen, and don't you know, he began with
"Cocksuckers.....". I never laughed so hard in my life.
Wasn't that the first word spoken in Season 2? I believe Jane is sleeping
on her horse in a drunken stupor when a buckboard goes by her noisily. She
wakes up just in time to yell at them. "Cocksuckerrrrrrsss" then promptly
passes out again.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"There would be a lot more civility in this world if people
didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you"
(Calvin and Hobbes)
William Wright
2006-07-16 20:00:37 UTC
Permalink
Yes, now that you mentioned it. It seems Swearengen practically had a
monopoly on that work in season one, and then after that, everyone used it.
--
***@verizon.net
"In the startled ear of night
How they scream out their affright!
Too much horrified to speak,
They can only shriek, shriek, "
On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 16:20:34 GMT, "William Wright"
Post by William Wright
I remember one episode in season one, I asked my wife, how long before
Swearengen says "cocksucker". When the show started, the first word
actually spoken was by Swearengen, and don't you know, he began with
"Cocksuckers.....". I never laughed so hard in my life.
Wasn't that the first word spoken in Season 2? I believe Jane is sleeping
on her horse in a drunken stupor when a buckboard goes by her noisily.
She
wakes up just in time to yell at them. "Cocksuckerrrrrrsss" then promptly
passes out again.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There would be a lot more civility in this world if people
didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you"
(Calvin and Hobbes)
Mottola The Degenerate
2006-05-24 20:11:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by jombithedjinn
That's right, I said it. It's a horrible show. It's like the creators
said "hmm, how could we figure a way to take convoluted, flowery,
tonguetwisting, two-bit Shakespearre-wannabe dialogue that's completely
unrealistic and that doesn't reflect the way anyone ever talked in real
life, and cram as much into an hour as possible? Oh, and we'll throw in
the word "fuck" alot because we want to be edgy."
Deadwood is a riveting, well acted and honest show. That's really the
way people talked in the old west you fuckin' cocksucker!
r***@hotmail.com
2006-05-24 20:57:10 UTC
Permalink
I agree, Deadwood sucks. I like westerns and was looking forward to
Deadwood coming from HBO after the winning Sopranos show.
I tried to get into it but the swearing sounded so out of place and
over-done that I had to quit watching.
Too bad, it could have been an interesting show.
unknown
2006-05-24 21:37:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@hotmail.com
I agree, Deadwood sucks. I like westerns and was looking forward to
Deadwood coming from HBO after the winning Sopranos show.
I tried to get into it but the swearing sounded so out of place and
over-done that I had to quit watching.
Too bad, it could have been an interesting show.
It *is* an interesting show. You just have to get past the swearing. Some
can. others can't.
Brian (aka Zod)
2006-05-25 02:20:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@hotmail.com
I agree, Deadwood sucks. I like westerns and was looking forward to
Deadwood coming from HBO after the winning Sopranos show.
I tried to get into it but the swearing sounded so out of place and
over-done that I had to quit watching.
Too bad, it could have been an interesting show.
its kinda funny, cause we often talk like that at my work. Fucking
cocksuckers!.. haha

I'm sure they used different swear words back then.. but watching the
old school westerns, where there wasn't any swearing... I didn't
understand how they couldn't use colorful language back then.

- Brian
Dano
2006-05-27 16:07:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@hotmail.com
I agree, Deadwood sucks. I like westerns and was looking forward to
Deadwood coming from HBO after the winning Sopranos show.
I tried to get into it but the swearing sounded so out of place and
over-done that I had to quit watching.
Too bad, it could have been an interesting show.
Yet you start your post with Deadwood sucks...an epithet that in my day
(no...I'm not THAT old) was considered a forbidden word. Standards change.
The whole point of the show is how there WERE no standards...or laws...and
precious little civilized behavior in general. That and how those things
are needed and the gradual realization that those things are
needed...Ironically Swearingen is a prime mover in that direction...he wants
a Sheriff...a Mayor...some limits. Of course he also wants to try to use
those to his advantage. No saint, that one, but he is somewhat wise...in a
cynical way.
unknown
2006-05-27 19:54:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dano
Post by r***@hotmail.com
I agree, Deadwood sucks. I like westerns and was looking forward to
Deadwood coming from HBO after the winning Sopranos show.
I tried to get into it but the swearing sounded so out of place and
over-done that I had to quit watching.
Too bad, it could have been an interesting show.
Yet you start your post with Deadwood sucks...an epithet that in my day
(no...I'm not THAT old) was considered a forbidden word. Standards change.
The whole point of the show is how there WERE no standards...or laws...and
precious little civilized behavior in general. That and how those things
are needed and the gradual realization that those things are
needed...Ironically Swearingen is a prime mover in that direction...he wants
a Sheriff...a Mayor...some limits. Of course he also wants to try to use
those to his advantage. No saint, that one, but he is somewhat wise...in a
cynical way.
"Gangs of New York" did it better.
Sparky Spartacus
2006-06-04 23:26:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by Dano
Post by r***@hotmail.com
I agree, Deadwood sucks. I like westerns and was looking forward to
Deadwood coming from HBO after the winning Sopranos show.
I tried to get into it but the swearing sounded so out of place and
over-done that I had to quit watching.
Too bad, it could have been an interesting show.
Yet you start your post with Deadwood sucks...an epithet that in my day
(no...I'm not THAT old) was considered a forbidden word. Standards change.
The whole point of the show is how there WERE no standards...or laws...and
precious little civilized behavior in general. That and how those things
are needed and the gradual realization that those things are
needed...Ironically Swearingen is a prime mover in that direction...he wants
a Sheriff...a Mayor...some limits. Of course he also wants to try to use
those to his advantage. No saint, that one, but he is somewhat wise...in a
cynical way.
"Gangs of New York" did it better.
The only thing GONY did better was suck moosecock.

YMMV, of course.
Irish Kike
2006-05-24 21:00:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by jombithedjinn
That's right, I said it. It's a horrible show. It's like the creators
said "hmm, how could we figure a way to take convoluted, flowery,
tonguetwisting, two-bit Shakespearre-wannabe dialogue that's completely
unrealistic and that doesn't reflect the way anyone ever talked in real
life, and cram as much into an hour as possible? Oh, and we'll throw in
the word "fuck" alot because we want to be edgy."
I agree. Everyone told me it is fabulous. So I watched a few episodes. It
bored me. And I like westerns. And I like the word "cocksucker". But
Deadwood just plain sucks. :-(
Irish Mike
2006-05-25 01:29:14 UTC
Permalink
I've been to Deadwood and played poker there. I also like the "Deadwood"
HBO series, have watched every episode and intend to watch every future
episode.
If you don't like the show, my suggestion is don't watch it.

Irish Mike
Post by Irish Kike
Post by jombithedjinn
That's right, I said it. It's a horrible show. It's like the creators
said "hmm, how could we figure a way to take convoluted, flowery,
tonguetwisting, two-bit Shakespearre-wannabe dialogue that's completely
unrealistic and that doesn't reflect the way anyone ever talked in real
life, and cram as much into an hour as possible? Oh, and we'll throw in
the word "fuck" alot because we want to be edgy."
I agree. Everyone told me it is fabulous. So I watched a few episodes. It
bored me. And I like westerns. And I like the word "cocksucker". But
Deadwood just plain sucks. :-(
e***@hotmail.com
2006-05-25 12:11:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Irish Mike
I've been to Deadwood and played poker there. I also like the "Deadwood"
HBO series, have watched every episode and intend to watch every future
episode.
If you don't like the show, my suggestion is don't watch it.
Irish Mike
Has Nat Love, aka "Deadwood Dick" shown up yet?

(wow, gambling, wrestling and the sopranos! Kinda stretched thin there
on the subject ain'tja?)
Dano
2006-05-24 21:02:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by jombithedjinn
That's right, I said it. It's a horrible show. It's like the creators
said "hmm, how could we figure a way to take convoluted, flowery,
tonguetwisting, two-bit Shakespearre-wannabe dialogue that's completely
unrealistic and that doesn't reflect the way anyone ever talked in real
life, and cram as much into an hour as possible? Oh, and we'll throw in
the word "fuck" alot because we want to be edgy."
What...you think the words fuck and cocksucker were invented
recently...stupid fuck.

How would you have the first idea how people talked back then? What are you
150 years old and experienced the Gold Rush?

Beyond that...who gives a shit what you care, you cross-posting, inbred,
self righteous hooplehead cocksucker?

What's your idea of fine entertainment Wrestlemania 37? Poker.com? Genus!
Angie
2006-05-24 22:15:24 UTC
Permalink
and why is this topic being posted in:

rec.sport.pro-wrestling,rec.arts.movies.current-films,rec.arts.tv,alt.tv.sopranos,rec.gambling.poker,
and alt.fan.howard-stern

???
unknown
2006-05-26 03:05:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Angie
rec.sport.pro-wrestling,rec.arts.movies.current-films,rec.arts.tv,alt.tv.sopranos,rec.gambling.poker,
and alt.fan.howard-stern
???
I guess because nobody trims headers. I will from now on. :-)
Dano
2006-05-27 15:58:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Angie
rec.sport.pro-wrestling,rec.arts.movies.current-films,rec.arts.tv,alt.tv.sopranos,rec.gambling.poker,
and alt.fan.howard-stern
???
Ask the dick who started the thread, not me...
Irish Mike
2006-05-27 17:02:46 UTC
Permalink
and why is this topic being posted in RGP"

Because every now and then, just for a change of pace, we like to read
something besides spam.

Irish Mike
Post by Dano
Post by Angie
rec.sport.pro-wrestling,rec.arts.movies.current-films,rec.arts.tv,alt.tv.sopranos,rec.gambling.poker,
and alt.fan.howard-stern
???
Ask the dick who started the thread, not me...
tom jones
2006-05-26 08:35:47 UTC
Permalink
"Necron99" <***@gmail.com> wrote in ...
| What is a hooplehead?
|
|



Does anyone know what "hooplehead" means with any f**king certitude?

Near's I can figure, a hooplehead is an ignorant, backwoods, dim-witted, slow-thinking, muddle-headed, addle-brained,
limp-d**k, dumb-ass c**ksucker.

But we use the term with great affection around here.
tomcervo
2006-05-26 12:54:35 UTC
Permalink
"Does anyone know what "hooplehead" means with any f**king certitude? "

Does anyone remember "Major Hoople"? The boarding house comic that
featured a spectacularly pompous idiot of the title, invariably brought
down and whose constant expression was "Fap!"
Peter Jason is his exact double, right down to the hat.
Sparky Spartacus
2006-05-26 16:05:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by tomcervo
"Does anyone know what "hooplehead" means with any f**king certitude? "
Does anyone remember "Major Hoople"? The boarding house comic that
featured a spectacularly pompous idiot of the title, invariably brought
down and whose constant expression was "Fap!"
Sure do! See my recent post.
r***@yahoo.com
2006-05-29 02:36:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by tomcervo
"Does anyone know what "hooplehead" means with any f**king certitude? "
Does anyone remember "Major Hoople"? The boarding house comic that
featured a spectacularly pompous idiot of the title, invariably brought
down and whose constant expression was "Fap!"
Peter Jason is his exact double, right down to the hat.
I thought his favorite expression was "harrumph...egad!"
Sparky Spartacus
2006-05-26 16:04:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by tom jones
| What is a hooplehead?
Does anyone know what "hooplehead" means with any f**king certitude?
Near's I can figure, a hooplehead is an ignorant, backwoods, dim-witted, slow-thinking, muddle-headed, addle-brained,
limp-d**k, dumb-ass c**ksucker.
But we use the term with great affection around here.
Did you Google it? Years ago there was a cartoon character named "Major
Hoople" for openers.
grinder
2006-05-24 21:07:24 UTC
Permalink
Just quit bitching.
Zeb Quinn
2006-05-24 22:18:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by jombithedjinn
That's right, I said it. It's a horrible show. It's like the creators
said "hmm, how could we figure a way to take convoluted, flowery,
tonguetwisting, two-bit Shakespearre-wannabe dialogue that's completely
unrealistic and that doesn't reflect the way anyone ever talked in real
life, and cram as much into an hour as possible? Oh, and we'll throw in
the word "fuck" alot because we want to be edgy."
Deadwood jumped the shark when they timed it so that Wild Bill got
killed after a mere 3-1/2 episodes. This series needed more of Keith
Carradine
Mark Nobles
2006-05-24 22:41:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zeb Quinn
Post by jombithedjinn
That's right, I said it. It's a horrible show. It's like the creators
said "hmm, how could we figure a way to take convoluted, flowery,
tonguetwisting, two-bit Shakespearre-wannabe dialogue that's completely
unrealistic and that doesn't reflect the way anyone ever talked in real
life, and cram as much into an hour as possible? Oh, and we'll throw in
the word "fuck" alot because we want to be edgy."
Deadwood jumped the shark when they timed it so that Wild Bill got
killed after a mere 3-1/2 episodes. This series needed more of Keith
Carradine
Wild Bill was only in Deadwood for three weeks before he got killed.
The only way to have more of him would have been to use the gimmick
from 24 of compressing all the action into a ridiculously short time.
That would not have allowed the characters to grow and develop as they
have.
Zeb Quinn
2006-05-24 23:47:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Nobles
Wild Bill was only in Deadwood for three weeks before he got killed.
The only way to have more of him would have been to use the gimmick
from 24 of compressing all the action into a ridiculously short time.
That would not have allowed the characters to grow and develop as they
have.
So the little historical factoid of Wild Bill being in Deadwood for 3
weeks is the only history that the series is faithful to, and yet
that's the one little piece of history that if they'd distorted it
could have saved the show. That's rich. Somehow I think that they
could only get Carradine for 4 episodes, and that had something to do
with it.
Dano
2006-05-27 16:34:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zeb Quinn
Post by Mark Nobles
Wild Bill was only in Deadwood for three weeks before he got killed.
The only way to have more of him would have been to use the gimmick
from 24 of compressing all the action into a ridiculously short time.
That would not have allowed the characters to grow and develop as they
have.
So the little historical factoid of Wild Bill being in Deadwood for 3
weeks is the only history that the series is faithful to, and yet
that's the one little piece of history that if they'd distorted it
could have saved the show. That's rich. Somehow I think that they
could only get Carradine for 4 episodes, and that had something to do
with it.
It's not the History Channel, but it does contain a lot of factual material
and characters based on real people. You can look it up if you like.
Swearingen was a real person, as were most of the other characters. Their
stories have been fictionalized and dramatized, Milch has been quite clear
about that. But IMO, his rendition of this period in our history has been
far more realistic than about 95% of other fictional reproductions on
television or film.

The one thing I'll agree with was Carradine probably didn't wish to commit
to a long term. That's why his portrayal was perfect. Nice symmetry to his
career...he started out in film as a young cowboy in another gritty,
realistic western, McCabe and Mrs. Miller, that had a lot of similarities to
Deadwood (minus the real historical figures). In that he comes to a tragic,
early demise also, but as an excited optimistic kid instead of a tired,
forlorn, relic of an age coming to a close. I was also terribly
disappointed and saddened when that character was killed in a cowardly
fashion as well. That was the point then as well. It's refreshing when a
portrayal of death in a western (or any other fiction) is sad rather than
exciting.
Sparky Spartacus
2006-05-24 22:42:58 UTC
Permalink
jombithedjinn wrote:

<snip>

x-posting twatwaffle!
Messalina
2006-05-25 00:26:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by jombithedjinn
That's right, I said it. It's a horrible show. It's like the creators
said "hmm, how could we figure a way to take convoluted, flowery,
tonguetwisting, two-bit Shakespearre-wannabe dialogue that's completely
unrealistic and that doesn't reflect the way anyone ever talked in real
life, and cram as much into an hour as possible? Oh, and we'll throw in
the word "fuck" alot because we want to be edgy."
Never read much Dickens, did you? The dialogue is clearly closer to
the Victorian era than Shakespeare. It sounds as much like Shakespeare
as Shakespeare does rap.

Take a look at this exerpt from a civil war soldier's letter home:

"In my present life I have plenty of leisure as we do not drill any yet
until we get our guns. So more from a feeling of ennui than anything
else I am prompted to devote a half hour to the delineation of some
part of the scene in camp life."

Mez
P.K.
2006-05-25 00:50:44 UTC
Permalink
It sounds like all people back then were Ph.D. candidates in literature. That
proves that we are all getting stupid and we are devolving. We will soon bomb
ourselves back to the stone age anyway, and when the human race gets back to
where we are now in about a million years, Mexican Wiggers.
Post by Messalina
Post by jombithedjinn
That's right, I said it. It's a horrible show. It's like the creators
said "hmm, how could we figure a way to take convoluted, flowery,
tonguetwisting, two-bit Shakespearre-wannabe dialogue that's completely
unrealistic and that doesn't reflect the way anyone ever talked in real
life, and cram as much into an hour as possible? Oh, and we'll throw in
the word "fuck" alot because we want to be edgy."
Never read much Dickens, did you? The dialogue is clearly closer to
the Victorian era than Shakespeare. It sounds as much like Shakespeare
as Shakespeare does rap.
"In my present life I have plenty of leisure as we do not drill any yet
until we get our guns. So more from a feeling of ennui than anything
else I am prompted to devote a half hour to the delineation of some
part of the scene in camp life."
Mez
ATP*
2006-05-25 01:02:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by P.K.
It sounds like all people back then were Ph.D. candidates in literature. That
proves that we are all getting stupid and we are devolving.
There is so much excellent, evocative prose on Usenet and Craigslist I'm
sure we're on our way back up.
Post by P.K.
Post by Messalina
Post by jombithedjinn
That's right, I said it. It's a horrible show. It's like the creators
said "hmm, how could we figure a way to take convoluted, flowery,
tonguetwisting, two-bit Shakespearre-wannabe dialogue that's completely
unrealistic and that doesn't reflect the way anyone ever talked in real
life, and cram as much into an hour as possible? Oh, and we'll throw in
the word "fuck" alot because we want to be edgy."
Never read much Dickens, did you? The dialogue is clearly closer to
the Victorian era than Shakespeare. It sounds as much like Shakespeare
as Shakespeare does rap.
"In my present life I have plenty of leisure as we do not drill any yet
until we get our guns. So more from a feeling of ennui than anything
else I am prompted to devote a half hour to the delineation of some
part of the scene in camp life."
Mez
Harkness
2006-05-25 06:59:29 UTC
Permalink
Wroth remembering a few things about the 19th Century, in America and
elsewhere.

With limited opportunities for entertainment, people read and went to
hear people speak.

A Sunday sermon could go on for an hour. Political debates -- real
debates, not the packaged soundbites we've come to expect, could run
for hours, and draw crowds of thousands.

Go back and read political speeches and letters from the 19th Century.

No movies, no TV, no live theatre.

People could grow up in a house where the only reading was the Bible,
and that would be the King James bible, which can get pretty damned
flowery. Maybe a volume of Shakespeare.

It's an age when talk was a form of entertainment.

People then swam in words the way we swim in images.

I suspect the talk in Deadwood is far more authentic than you think.

John Harkness
Derek Janssen
2006-05-25 07:06:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harkness
It's an age when talk was a form of entertainment.
People then swam in words the way we swim in images.
I suspect the talk in Deadwood is far more authentic than you think.
John Harkness
But here on RAMC-F, where Harkness should know better, we really
couldn't care less.

Derek Janssen (it's just a phase he's going through)
***@comcast.net
Erik Max Francis
2006-05-25 07:34:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harkness
Go back and read political speeches and letters from the 19th Century.
No movies, no TV, no live theatre.
No live theatre? They didn't have that before 1900, huh?
--
Erik Max Francis && ***@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
Ten lands are sooner known than one man.
-- (a Yiddish proverb)
Harkness
2006-05-25 07:56:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Erik Max Francis
No live theatre? They didn't have that before 1900, huh?
I cut and forgot to paste -- Outside of established towns, not much
live theatre.

Not live theatre every day or even every week out in the boondocks. In
NYC or London, you could, if you had the werewithal, doubltess see a
play a day. And you might, in the cowtowns and the mining camps,
occasionally catch a touring show, like Alan Mowbray rattling on
Shakespeare in Tombstone in My Darling Clementine.

For most people, most of the time, A play was a relatively rare thing.

Okay?

John Harkness
student1999
2006-05-25 07:37:20 UTC
Permalink
I agree: there was no such thing as TV or even a comic book. Dickens
was popular reading, not just for school.

As for profanity, I think the very definition of profanity has varied
over the years. What I do know is that at one point the word 'leg' was
not used in normal conversation any more than 'breast' would be today.
I am guessing therefore that they are overdoing the 'cocksucker' stuff
somewhat.
David Johnston
2006-05-25 08:04:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by student1999
I agree: there was no such thing as TV or even a comic book. Dickens
was popular reading, not just for school.
As for profanity, I think the very definition of profanity has varied
over the years. What I do know is that at one point the word 'leg' was
not used in normal conversation any more than 'breast' would be today.
Only among middle class society.
tomcervo
2006-05-25 11:41:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by student1999
As for profanity, I think the very definition of profanity has varied
over the years. What I do know is that at one point the word 'leg' was
not used in normal conversation any more than 'breast' would be today.
Only among middle class society.
Exactly. "Polite" society hid a lot of things. In 19th century London,
doctors held it as an article of faith that women were incapable of
orgasm. And every whore's first lesson was how to fake it.
Sparky Spartacus
2006-05-25 14:28:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by tomcervo
Post by David Johnston
Post by student1999
As for profanity, I think the very definition of profanity has varied
over the years. What I do know is that at one point the word 'leg' was
not used in normal conversation any more than 'breast' would be today.
Only among middle class society.
Exactly. "Polite" society hid a lot of things. In 19th century London,
doctors held it as an article of faith that women were incapable of
orgasm. And every whore's first lesson was how to fake it.
Funny how some things never change!
Sparky Spartacus
2006-05-25 14:27:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by student1999
I agree: there was no such thing as TV or even a comic book. Dickens
was popular reading, not just for school.
As for profanity, I think the very definition of profanity has varied
over the years. What I do know is that at one point the word 'leg' was
not used in normal conversation any more than 'breast' would be today.
I am guessing therefore that they are overdoing the 'cocksucker' stuff
somewhat.
Huge gap between "polite society" and a mining camp.
Ed Stasiak
2006-05-26 02:23:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by student1999
As for profanity, I think the very definition of profanity has varied
over the years.
I read somewhere that the (excessive and sometimes comical
IMO) use of "cocksucker" and "fucker" in Deadwood was
specifically chosen by the writer, as he felt the use of swear
words more common and accurate for the 1800's like "God
damm you", "damm you to Hell", etc wouldn't have carried
the same weight with a modern audience and would have
instead sounded corny.

Otherwise, I think it's a good TV show and it's a shame that
HBO is canceling the series.
beerboy
2006-05-25 07:55:09 UTC
Permalink
|
| I suspect the talk in Deadwood is far more authentic than you think.
|
| John Harkness
|

You are exactly right.

If you get the Deadwood Season one DVD collection, they have a whole chapter in the bonuses/extras portion of the DVD
that show the *authenticity*, and historical correctness of the language in Deadwood. Supposedly, the show uses all the
actual slang and what not from the actual time period. I don't have the collection myself, but I have seen it at a
friend's house. Someone who owns the collection can verify.
moviePig
2006-05-25 12:04:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harkness
Wroth remembering a few things about the 19th Century, in America and
elsewhere.
With limited opportunities for entertainment, people read and went to
hear people speak.
A Sunday sermon could go on for an hour. Political debates -- real
debates, not the packaged soundbites we've come to expect, could run
for hours, and draw crowds of thousands.
Go back and read political speeches and letters from the 19th Century.
No movies, no TV, no live theatre.
People could grow up in a house where the only reading was the Bible,
and that would be the King James bible, which can get pretty damned
flowery. Maybe a volume of Shakespeare.
It's an age when talk was a form of entertainment.
People then swam in words the way we swim in images.
I suspect the talk in Deadwood is far more authentic than you think.
Fwiw, my rationale for Deadwood's florid language had to do with a
burgeoning frontier town's wish to emulate respectability and urban
sophistication ...a longing not only of the Chamber of Commerce, but
also of the nostalgic citizenry.

--

/---------------------------\
| YOUR taste at work... |
| |
| http://www.moviepig.com |
\---------------------------/
Sparky Spartacus
2006-05-25 14:26:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harkness
Wroth remembering a few things about the 19th Century, in America and
elsewhere.
With limited opportunities for entertainment, people read and went to
hear people speak.
A Sunday sermon could go on for an hour. Political debates -- real
debates, not the packaged soundbites we've come to expect, could run
for hours, and draw crowds of thousands.
Go back and read political speeches and letters from the 19th Century.
No movies, no TV, no live theatre.
People could grow up in a house where the only reading was the Bible,
and that would be the King James bible, which can get pretty damned
flowery. Maybe a volume of Shakespeare.
It's an age when talk was a form of entertainment.
People then swam in words the way we swim in images.
I suspect the talk in Deadwood is far more authentic than you think.
John Harkness
Well put, John.
Sparky Spartacus
2006-05-25 14:26:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by P.K.
It sounds like all people back then were Ph.D. candidates in literature. That
proves that we are all getting stupid and we are devolving. We will soon bomb
ourselves back to the stone age anyway, and when the human race gets back to
where we are now in about a million years, Mexican Wiggers.
Pardon my ignorance, what's a "wigger"?
P.K.
2006-05-27 05:40:17 UTC
Permalink
OK, I'm going to bring you into the 21st Century now ............ ready ??? A
Wigger is a White guy who thinks, talks, and acts like he is a Nigger.
Post by Sparky Spartacus
Post by P.K.
It sounds like all people back then were Ph.D. candidates in literature. That
proves that we are all getting stupid and we are devolving. We will soon bomb
ourselves back to the stone age anyway, and when the human race gets back to
where we are now in about a million years, Mexican Wiggers.
Pardon my ignorance, what's a "wigger"?
eleaticus
2006-05-25 01:55:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Messalina
Post by jombithedjinn
That's right, I said it. It's a horrible show. It's like the creators
said "hmm, how could we figure a way to take convoluted, flowery,
tonguetwisting, two-bit Shakespearre-wannabe dialogue that's completely
unrealistic and that doesn't reflect the way anyone ever talked in real
life, and cram as much into an hour as possible? Oh, and we'll throw in
the word "fuck" alot because we want to be edgy."
Never read much Dickens, did you? The dialogue is clearly closer to
the Victorian era than Shakespeare. It sounds as much like Shakespeare
as Shakespeare does rap.
"In my present life I have plenty of leisure as we do not drill any yet
until we get our guns. So more from a feeling of ennui than anything
else I am prompted to devote a half hour to the delineation of some
part of the scene in camp life."
hey, that's good post.
Post by Messalina
Mez
eleaticus
ee-lee-AT-i-cus
Sparky Spartacus
2006-05-25 14:25:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Messalina
Post by jombithedjinn
That's right, I said it. It's a horrible show. It's like the creators
said "hmm, how could we figure a way to take convoluted, flowery,
tonguetwisting, two-bit Shakespearre-wannabe dialogue that's completely
unrealistic and that doesn't reflect the way anyone ever talked in real
life, and cram as much into an hour as possible? Oh, and we'll throw in
the word "fuck" alot because we want to be edgy."
Never read much Dickens, did you? The dialogue is clearly closer to
the Victorian era than Shakespeare. It sounds as much like Shakespeare
as Shakespeare does rap.
"In my present life I have plenty of leisure as we do not drill any yet
until we get our guns. So more from a feeling of ennui than anything
else I am prompted to devote a half hour to the delineation of some
part of the scene in camp life."
Historically there has been a big gap between the spoken & written word,
the written being much more formal. I doubt the soldier quoted went into
battle promising to relieve the enemy from their persistent ennui or
spouting a Hamlet-like soliloquy.
Messalina
2006-05-25 15:34:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sparky Spartacus
Post by Messalina
Post by jombithedjinn
That's right, I said it. It's a horrible show. It's like the creators
said "hmm, how could we figure a way to take convoluted, flowery,
tonguetwisting, two-bit Shakespearre-wannabe dialogue that's completely
unrealistic and that doesn't reflect the way anyone ever talked in real
life, and cram as much into an hour as possible? Oh, and we'll throw in
the word "fuck" alot because we want to be edgy."
Never read much Dickens, did you? The dialogue is clearly closer to
the Victorian era than Shakespeare. It sounds as much like Shakespeare
as Shakespeare does rap.
"In my present life I have plenty of leisure as we do not drill any yet
until we get our guns. So more from a feeling of ennui than anything
else I am prompted to devote a half hour to the delineation of some
part of the scene in camp life."
Historically there has been a big gap between the spoken & written word,
the written being much more formal. I doubt the soldier quoted went into
battle promising to relieve the enemy from their persistent ennui or
spouting a Hamlet-like soliloquy.
Hence the absence of the word "fuck."

Mez
Sparky Spartacus
2006-05-25 21:11:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Messalina
Post by Sparky Spartacus
Post by Messalina
Post by jombithedjinn
That's right, I said it. It's a horrible show. It's like the creators
said "hmm, how could we figure a way to take convoluted, flowery,
tonguetwisting, two-bit Shakespearre-wannabe dialogue that's completely
unrealistic and that doesn't reflect the way anyone ever talked in real
life, and cram as much into an hour as possible? Oh, and we'll throw in
the word "fuck" alot because we want to be edgy."
Never read much Dickens, did you? The dialogue is clearly closer to
the Victorian era than Shakespeare. It sounds as much like Shakespeare
as Shakespeare does rap.
"In my present life I have plenty of leisure as we do not drill any yet
until we get our guns. So more from a feeling of ennui than anything
else I am prompted to devote a half hour to the delineation of some
part of the scene in camp life."
Historically there has been a big gap between the spoken & written word,
the written being much more formal. I doubt the soldier quoted went into
battle promising to relieve the enemy from their persistent ennui or
spouting a Hamlet-like soliloquy.
Hence the absence of the word "fuck."
Non sequitur of the week
tomcervo
2006-05-25 01:30:12 UTC
Permalink
"It's like the creators said "hmm, how could we figure a way to take
convoluted, flowery,
tonguetwisting, two-bit Shakespearre-wannabe dialogue that's completely

unrealistic and that doesn't reflect the way anyone ever talked in real

life, and cram as much into an hour as possible?"

Then don't watch it. And try not to the the knowledge that millions do
bother you so very very much.
unknown
2006-05-25 13:22:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by jombithedjinn
That's right, I said it. It's a horrible show. It's like the creators
said "hmm, how could we figure a way to take convoluted, flowery,
tonguetwisting, two-bit Shakespearre-wannabe dialogue that's completely
unrealistic and that doesn't reflect the way anyone ever talked in real
life, and cram as much into an hour as possible? Oh, and we'll throw in
the word "fuck" alot because we want to be edgy."
I smell troll poontang.
ckbe
2006-05-26 00:55:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by jombithedjinn
That's right, I said it. It's a horrible show. It's like the creators
said "hmm, how could we figure a way to take convoluted, flowery,
tonguetwisting, two-bit Shakespearre-wannabe dialogue that's completely
unrealistic and that doesn't reflect the way anyone ever talked in real
life, and cram as much into an hour as possible? Oh, and we'll throw in
the word "fuck" alot because we want to be edgy."
The obscenity fuck is a very old word and has been considered shocking from
the first, though it is seen in print much more often now than in the past.
Its first known occurrence, in code because of its unacceptability, is in a
poem composed in a mixture of Latin and English sometime before 1500. The
poem, which satirizes the Carmelite friars of Cambridge, England, takes its
title, "Flen flyys," from the first words of its opening line, "Flen, flyys,
and freris," that is, "fleas, flies, and friars." The line that contains
fuck reads "Non sunt in coeli, quia gxddbov xxkxzt pg ifmk." The Latin words
"Non sunt in coeli, quia," mean "they [the friars] are not in heaven,
since." The code "gxddbov xxkxzt pg ifmk" is easily broken by simply
substituting the preceding letter in the alphabet, keeping in mind
differences in the alphabet and in spelling between then and now: i was then
used for both i and j; v was used for both u and v; and vv was used for w.
This yields "fvccant [a fake Latin form] vvivys of heli." The whole thus
reads in translation: "They are not in heaven because they fuck wives of Ely
[a town near Cambridge]."
Sparky Spartacus
2006-05-26 16:06:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by ckbe
Post by jombithedjinn
That's right, I said it. It's a horrible show. It's like the creators
said "hmm, how could we figure a way to take convoluted, flowery,
tonguetwisting, two-bit Shakespearre-wannabe dialogue that's completely
unrealistic and that doesn't reflect the way anyone ever talked in real
life, and cram as much into an hour as possible? Oh, and we'll throw in
the word "fuck" alot because we want to be edgy."
The obscenity fuck is a very old word and has been considered shocking from
the first, though it is seen in print much more often now than in the past.
Its first known occurrence, in code because of its unacceptability, is in a
poem composed in a mixture of Latin and English sometime before 1500. The
poem, which satirizes the Carmelite friars of Cambridge, England, takes its
title, "Flen flyys," from the first words of its opening line, "Flen, flyys,
and freris," that is, "fleas, flies, and friars." The line that contains
fuck reads "Non sunt in coeli, quia gxddbov xxkxzt pg ifmk." The Latin words
"Non sunt in coeli, quia," mean "they [the friars] are not in heaven,
since." The code "gxddbov xxkxzt pg ifmk" is easily broken by simply
substituting the preceding letter in the alphabet, keeping in mind
differences in the alphabet and in spelling between then and now: i was then
used for both i and j; v was used for both u and v; and vv was used for w.
This yields "fvccant [a fake Latin form] vvivys of heli." The whole thus
reads in translation: "They are not in heaven because they fuck wives of Ely
[a town near Cambridge]."
Sounds like an outtake from "Carmine burana". ;)
curmudgeon
2006-05-29 03:27:10 UTC
Permalink
"jombithedjinn" <***@excite.com> wrote in message news:***@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
That's right, I said it. It's a horrible show. It's like the creators
said "hmm, how could we figure a way to take convoluted, flowery,
tonguetwisting, two-bit Shakespearre-wannabe dialogue that's completely
unrealistic and that doesn't reflect the way anyone ever talked in real
life, and cram as much into an hour as possible? Oh, and we'll throw in
the word "fuck" alot because we want to be edgy."


It is a historically proven fact that George Washington was a Blasphemer.
As well as having a very short and volatile temper.
Plus he was a known womanizer in his youth.
Yet he hated to be touched by any one.
Now there is a TV show for the masses.
Sparky Spartacus
2006-06-04 23:28:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by jombithedjinn
That's right, I said it. It's a horrible show. It's like the creators
said "hmm, how could we figure a way to take convoluted, flowery,
tonguetwisting, two-bit Shakespearre-wannabe dialogue that's completely
unrealistic and that doesn't reflect the way anyone ever talked in real
life, and cram as much into an hour as possible? Oh, and we'll throw in
the word "fuck" alot because we want to be edgy."
It is a historically proven fact that George Washington was a Blasphemer.
As well as having a very short and volatile temper.
Plus he was a known womanizer in his youth.
Yet he hated to be touched by any one.
A "womanizer", yet he hated to be touched by anyone, hm?
blnder
2006-06-05 01:02:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by jombithedjinn
That's right, I said it. It's a horrible show. It's like the creators
said "hmm, how could we figure a way to take convoluted, flowery,
tonguetwisting, two-bit Shakespearre-wannabe dialogue that's completely
unrealistic and that doesn't reflect the way anyone ever talked in real
life, and cram as much into an hour as possible? Oh, and we'll throw in
the word "fuck" alot because we want to be edgy."
Completely accurate assessment of that trainwreck-of-a-show.

A bad western with "swear words", is all that is.

But people think it's hip, because it's HBO-- where you can say "fuck".


Sex & the City? Same thing. People were afraid to say they don't
watch the show because they didn't want to branded as a "prude".

But a horrible show is a horrible show-- no matter how you dress it
down.

There was nothing original about that show. Same tired sex situations
and jokes, predictable dialogue and a bunch of desperate, ugly women
(inside and out) whom you don't even want to KNOW they're having sex,
for fear your dinner will come up.
P.K.
2006-06-05 01:13:41 UTC
Permalink
If you remove the cuss words from that show, you would have uh..........let's
just say that it ain't no John Wayne movie !!!!!
Post by blnder
Post by jombithedjinn
That's right, I said it. It's a horrible show. It's like the creators
said "hmm, how could we figure a way to take convoluted, flowery,
tonguetwisting, two-bit Shakespearre-wannabe dialogue that's completely
unrealistic and that doesn't reflect the way anyone ever talked in real
life, and cram as much into an hour as possible? Oh, and we'll throw in
the word "fuck" alot because we want to be edgy."
Completely accurate assessment of that trainwreck-of-a-show.
A bad western with "swear words", is all that is.
But people think it's hip, because it's HBO-- where you can say "fuck".
Sex & the City? Same thing. People were afraid to say they don't
watch the show because they didn't want to branded as a "prude".
But a horrible show is a horrible show-- no matter how you dress it
down.
There was nothing original about that show. Same tired sex situations
and jokes, predictable dialogue and a bunch of desperate, ugly women
(inside and out) whom you don't even want to KNOW they're having sex,
for fear your dinner will come up.
Sparky Spartacus
2006-06-08 19:09:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by blnder
Post by jombithedjinn
That's right, I said it. It's a horrible show. It's like the creators
said "hmm, how could we figure a way to take convoluted, flowery,
tonguetwisting, two-bit Shakespearre-wannabe dialogue that's completely
unrealistic and that doesn't reflect the way anyone ever talked in real
life, and cram as much into an hour as possible? Oh, and we'll throw in
the word "fuck" alot because we want to be edgy."
Completely accurate assessment of that trainwreck-of-a-show.
A bad western with "swear words", is all that is.
But people think it's hip, because it's HBO-- where you can say "fuck".
Sex & the City? Same thing. People were afraid to say they don't
watch the show because they didn't want to branded as a "prude".
But a horrible show is a horrible show-- no matter how you dress it
down.
And a prude is an uptight asshole.
Spleeph
2006-06-09 00:08:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by jombithedjinn
That's right, I said it. It's a horrible show. It's like the creators
said "hmm, how could we figure a way to take convoluted, flowery,
tonguetwisting, two-bit Shakespearre-wannabe dialogue that's completely
unrealistic and that doesn't reflect the way anyone ever talked in real
life, and cram as much into an hour as possible? Oh, and we'll throw in
the word "fuck" alot because we want to be edgy."
Fucking philistine! Go back to watching reruns of Little House on the
Prairie, cocksucker.
Buggerlugz
2006-06-16 11:11:16 UTC
Permalink
The language of Deadwood makes the show what it is. There is
deep dark humour in there that is so sutble yet helps portray
the depth of character, they're feelings and hardships
perfectly.

I know it gets like an episode of bleak house with bad language
at times but thats the beauty of good writing and nothing more.

Fact is, Deadwood isn't a show for everybody. I watch it alone
because it can be an uncomfortable experience in the company of
others, but thats also why I like it. It is originality,
something the hollywood of late isn't capable of producing.

Deadwood is probably the best drama on the UK today, with
Battle-star galactica some way behind.

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Deadwoodhead
2006-06-18 14:33:23 UTC
Permalink
"Buggerlugz" <***@not-hotmail.com> wrote in message news:449291d4$0$1227$***@news.zen.co.uk...

. I watch it alone
Post by Buggerlugz
because it can be an uncomfortable experience in the company of
others, but thats also why I like it. >
Whacha do, jag off?
Tony Elka
2006-06-18 17:52:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Buggerlugz
. I watch it alone
Post by Buggerlugz
because it can be an uncomfortable experience in the company of
others, but thats also why I like it. >
Whacha do, jag off?
I love watching Deadwood with a roomful of people, some fans and some
newbies. I have smart friends, so they pick up on the dialogue fairly
quickly.

We drink while we watch the show. Heavily.

And there IS a "jag off" moment in the opening credits, when that nude
lady dips her sweet ass into that washtub. Hope it's for sale.

Tony
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